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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  April 16, 2013 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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thanks for watching. chris matthews picks things up now. good evening, i'm chris matthews with the latest on the boston marathon terror bombings. we're awaiting the start of a news conference right now from massachusetts governor devalue, t patrick, and we're going to bring that to you when it begins. in the meantime, here's where things stand at this hour. as of now three people are dead and more than 18 o wounded. . some in critical condition. many of the wounded including those who lost limbs are facing, of course, years of recovery and therapy. one of those cases involves two
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brothers who both lost a leg. >> i have been moved and as a matter of fact, really amazed by the resolve of our patients. some of them woke up today with no leg and they told me that they're happy to be alive. they thought they would die as they saw the blood spilling out. they thought that they would lose their life right there and then. as they woke up today from surgery and they saw that they're not dead, they feel extremely thankful. >> wow. well, this, the boy, by the way, 8-year-old martin richard, has become the face of the tragedy. he died yesterday. his sister and mother were also very seriously wounded and they're in the hospital right now. today we learned the identity of another fatality, 29-year-old krystle campbell of medford, mass. she was with her best friend watching that friend's boyfriend cross the finish line when she was killed in the blast. talk about going from joy well, to heaven, maybe. we also got new video from a marathon runner named jennifer
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treacy approaching the finish line when the first bomb went off. we're also learning new details about the bombs, themselves. we now know they contained explosives and shrapnel packed inside a pressure cooker, regular kitchen pressure cooker and they were placed inside backpacks. we also now know the bombs were set off by an electric timer. the "boston globe" reported a circuit breaker was used to trigger the dual explosions. president obama did something today he didn't do yesterday. he called it an act of terrorism. >> this was a heinous and cowardly act, and given what we now know about what took place, the fbi is investigating it as an act of terrorism. any time bombs are used to target innocent civilians, it is
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an act of terror. >> well, there's still so much we don't know. who did this? no one knows. why? was it an act of domestic terrorism or foreign? was this the work of an individual or a group of people? despite the stepped up police presence at the site, despite the advanced frenzices used by the investigators, despite all the cell phones we're using, all those videos out there, there's no guarantee who is responsible for this will be discovered any time soon. it took nearly two years, let's remember, for the fbi to locate and arrest the unabomber, two decades, rather. the unabbomber. let's begin this hour with former cia counterterrorism director, larry johnson. your thoughts about this kind of challenge and the working relationships among the various agencies, federal and state. >> one of the biggest issues usually in all of these events has been the interaction between federal law enforcement and local law enforcement. in the 1993 world trade center bombing because that was really a federal facility, the federal
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government got involved but immediately almost had a fistfight between fbi and atf. so now what you've got it looks like a good working relationship between president obama and governor deval patrick has allowed a very smooth handoff from the boston police to the fbi. in watching just the press conferences so far, they've been sending the right signals of having a joint communicative working relationship. and that's critical to having an effective investigation. >> you and i were talking before about lockerbie, how you could determine through finding little particles of machinery that this was perhaps done by a certain kind of detonator. how far along are we? we already know now it was something to do with a circuit board. what does that tell you? >> they're saying they found a circuit board. how big of a piece, we don't know. remember in another case, it was about the size of your thumbnail and took well over a year before that was really nailed down. i think in this case because you're not having to go out and look for debris scattered all
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over fields of scotland, this is going to be much easier to develop the forensic case of putting the evidence together. >> can you find out where somebody bought something like that? >> potentially, yes. >> how about the pressure cookers? now, they're kitchen products. i was asking people, apparently any walmart, any, you know, sonoma, whatever it's called. almost any store, high end or low end or middle end, will have it available. >> you can always tell what a particular brand is and even trace it back to where that was produced. it's important to note that particular model, that type of explosive, has been very popular along the pakistan/india border. >> what does it do to screw on top of a -- >> it's not so much -- they have developed a system for it, you put the explosives inside. could have been ammonium nitrate, tatp. it was not likely a high military explosive because of the smoke color. >> why is the compression built up more? >> it's not so much the compression. it gives you something, you can hold it in there, can put some
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bearings in. it's a nice, convenient container. the detonator will go in through the top. you have to figure out a way for that detonator to ignite. >> what does it tell you these were set off sequentially, that one goes then a couple seconds later another goes? how hard a project is that for an amateur, monovalent unabomber type, and how much does it suggest an organized international operation? >> you know, take your scale of zero where you can't even open a door and ten being the world's best bomb maker, this is about a six. this means somebody did the prior planning. they knew how to develop the devices. they were able to set the timers in such a way they didn't detonate beforehand and detonated close enough to each other. this has been a hallmark of al qaeda. >> closer to organized terrorism groups than a crackpot? >> yes, absolutely. >> let me go down to chuck todd, white house correspondent. chuck, is there any sense from the top what we're facing here? is there any attitude you're coming across about whether this is foreign, domestic or an individual, monovalent, you
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know, people hater? >> reporter: no, but you got not from here at the white house, what you see is a lot of veterans on capitol hill hearing the information that they're getting and coming to certain conclusions about that this because of the lack of international groups that seem to be -- the lack of intelligence involving links to potential international groups that you see some of the folks in congress hearing the information that they were briefed on and seeing it is pointing to homegrown. there's a lot of the, quote, gut checks that the longer this goes on that we don't have a clear idea overseas that there's a connection, the more likely that it's homegrown. but there's a real hesitance around here to draw any major conclusions because they have so little to go on. i mean, getting the forensics, if you will, around the explosive device, itself, seems to be helping them, but beyond that, they still don't have a good connection. >> let's go to governor deval patrick right now. he's beginning his press conference. >> going to hear from the fbi,
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rick deslauriers on the investigation and the mayor and i have a couple of follow-on comments and announcements with respect to the recovery. and then any of us are available to take questions from any of you. so let me start with special agent deslauriers. there you are. >> thank you very much, governor patrick. and, again, my name is -- good afternoon, my name is rick deslauriers. special agent in charge of the fbi's boston division. let me recap this afternoon. yesterday at this time, our collaborative efforts were focused on saving lives and treating the injured. resources were directed to ensure the safety of our community. as soon as those important tasks were completed, first responders focused on establishing a criminal investigation. the fbi's boston joint terrorism task force composed of more than 30 federal, state, local law enforcement agencies including the boston police, massachusetts
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state police, atf, united states secret service and others responded to the scene. many of them were already there as part of the general security for the marathon already in place. the first step law enforcement took was to secure the physical area around the blast for the purpose of preserving evidence in the area related to the devices, itself. this morning, the fbi along with boston pd, massachusetts state police, and atf officially began its forensic evidence recovery effort at the site. their fwogoal was to recover physical items related to blast. those items have been recovered and being sent to the fbi's laboratory in quantico, virginia. specialized examiners will reconstruct the device or devices and determine its makeup and components. among items partially recovered are pieces of black nylon, which could be from a backpack, and what appear to be fragments of bbs and nails, possibly contained in a pressure cooker
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device. we are expediting this blast evidence to our laboratory in quantico, virginia, for a complete and thorough analysis. in addition, this morning it was determined that both of the explosives were placed in a dark colored nylon bag or backpack. the bag would have been heavy because of the components believed to be in it. at this point, it is difficult to determine specific components used until we can eliminate other factors which may have already been present in the environment. in fact, we won't know with some certainty until the laboratory completes its final review. away from the scene, yesterday afternoon, the jttf began its investigation. immediately after the bombing, the fbi initiated a command post. those assigned to the jttf, intelligence analysts and other personnel from every state, local and federal government agency associated with the jttf, and many others on their own, including boston pd and mass state police, more than 1,000 law enforcement officers across
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many agencies had been assigned to this investigation via the command post. they began canvassing sources, reviewing government and public source databases and conducting interviews with eyewitnesss and others to determine who was responsible for this crime. we are doing this methodically, carefully, yet with a sense of urgency. all across the nation and around the world, the force of the united states is working hard to locate those responsible. already the fbi has received more than 2,000 tips as of noon today. many of which have already been reviewed, analyzed and vetted. we will continue to work around the clock tirelessly side by side with our partners to continue to investigate and act on these leads. regarding who might be suspected of this event, the investigation is in its infancy. as law enforcement, it is our responsibility to threview each
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and every piece of evidence. some of our activity you may see, some of it won't. rest assured we're working hard to get the answers. at this time, there are no claims of responsibility. the range of suspects and motives remains wide open. importantly, the person who did this is someone who's friend, neighbor, co-worker, or relative. we're asking anyone who may have heard someone speak about the marathon or the date of april 15th in any way that indicated that he or she may target the event to call us. someone knows who did this. cooperation from the community will play a crucial role in this investigation. we ask that businesses review and preserve video surveillance, video, and other business records in their original form. we are asking the public to remain alert and alert us of the following activity. any individual who expressed a desire to target the marathon. suspicious interest in researching how to create explosive devices.
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the noise of explosions in remote areas prior to yesterday which may have been used as tests by those responsible for these acts. someone who appeared to be carrying an unusually heavy dark colored bag yesterday around the time of the blasts and in the vicinity of the blasts. as further substantive details become available that are appropriate for release, together we will either issue a press release or hold a press conference. and tomorrow we plan to hold another press conference in the early afternoon. thank you very much. and i want to thank the public for their tremendous support in this investigation. it is crucial to our ultimate success and i thank the resid t residents of the city of boston, the cities of commonwealth of massachusetts for this information that has been provided to us. i also want to thank the weston hotel here for their services and allowing us to use their facility. we're very grateful for that. thank you very much. >> thank you, rick. mr. mayor?
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>> thank you, governor. thank you all for being here once again this afternoon. as the investigation continues, more victims are being identified, in true boston fashion, many offering help and assistance. earlier today, senator warren and i visited several of the victims of this tragedy. your heart goes out to them and their families during this very difficult time for them. i also want to talk about the police, the fire, ems, all those services, the volunteers who reacted quickly during this time of tragedy also. because of the outpouring of help, we set up an organization which is to collect money to help people who might need help during this time. the website is
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go to that site and donate re resources you might have. some folks have already stepped up, john hancock, larry lacino. the whole business community is coming together and the boston foundation. they're all there willing to help. that's how boston's coming together like it's never come before. we're all here because this tragedy is not going to stop boston. we are boston. we are one community and we will not let terror take us over. >> thank you very much, mr. mayor. thanks to all of the donors, the inaugural donors, if you will, for the onefund boston and those who will contribute. in the nature of contributions, lieutenant governor and i visited a couple of hospitals this afternoon as well, and one of the things that we had an opportunity to do is thank the extraordinary medical teams who have responded to the needs of people who were hurt. one of the things we learned is that there is a need for blood
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on a sustained basis. so this would be -- i just want to make sure everybody understands this the way i think i understand it. do not go and make a donation today, but next week and the week after that, there will be an ongoing need for blood donations. so members of the public who are following these announcements, who are inclined and able to make blood donations at their local hospital or through the red cross, next week and the week after that our medical professionals anticipate a need. we are going to have an interfaith service. it will be at 11:00 on thursday morning. it will be held at the cathedral of the holy cross in the south end. i'm very pleased that the president will join us for that to help us all heal. another point that i wanted to make before i open it up to questions, you've heard special agent deslauriers and many, many
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others in law enforcement tell you what we can tell you about the ongoing investigation and the fact that there is not yet an identified suspect. these are times when all kinds of forces sometimes conspire to make people start to think of categories of people in sometimes uncharitable ways. this community will recover and will heal if we turn to each other rather than on each other. and one of the things that we'll emphasize at the interfaith service and that we want to emphasize by our example every day is that we are one community, as the mayor said. we are all in this together and the sensitivity we show to each other as we heal will be an important part of how we heal. and now we're happy to take your questions. [ inaudible question ] >> i'm not signaling anything. >> are you looking for one
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person? >> i believe i mentioned in my statement, we don't have any definitive information regarding suspects or subjects. it could be a person, it could be persons. we don't have any -- we have not reached any conclusions s at al in that regard. >> commissioner davis, you run this even year after year, presumably with a sound security plan. can you talk about what happened this year? what went wrong? and do you think these people may have been planning this for many years? >> the second part of that question will be answered by the investigation. there's a lot of work that needs to be done to determine exactly how this incident occurred. we planned this incident like we do every incident in the city of boston, we work very closely with our federal partners, the intelligence services. each incident is vetted very carefully. there's a specific plan put together. this particular plan was very well thought out and executed. and there were more officers
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assigned to this race than we've ever assigned before. and we were particularly concerned with the finish line this year and assigned more officers down in that area. i think if you look at the videotapes, you an see that. we'll have a lot of time to vet all these plans and to determine exactly what happened here. this is going to be an integral part. >> did something go wrong with your plan? >> well, you know, this is a soft target. and so anybody can go into a church service and do this type of thing. when you have an event like -- you can't lock it down like it's a military operation. it needs to be open to the public. there's commerce occurring up and down that parade route. and by the virtue of the type of event this is, it requires that we don't turn these events into a police state. so we struck what we believed to be the appropriate balance. we'll review all of that and
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we'll come to some conclusions down the road, but this investigation is really our priority right now. >> governor, a few minutes ago. [ inaudible ] are you suggesting that that situation is, in fact, happening? >> no, we haven't actually had any complaints, but u.s. attorney and i were talking earlier about those concerns and just wanting to remind people, this is a time to be, to show that sensitivity. >> mr. deslauriers, can i ask you just a few questions, sir? the black nylon residue found in both of the bomb blasts? and what specifically can you tell us about the rice cooker? >> i believe i said pressure cooker. possibly a pressure cooker. black nylon bags possibly at both sites. >> two bags? >> yeah, black nylon bags as opposed to i think you said
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residue. >> you said they were heavy. how heavy? and were they concealed in anything else like a grocery bag? >> i can't characterize the specifics of that. we're postulating they needed to be heavy bags to carry the explosive devices inside of them. they would not be light bags. >> just one more question. does it appear that they were twin bombs? was the damage the same at both? were the fragments the same in both? the nylon the same in both? >> i think that would be speculation right now before the evidentiary review is complete. >> did you find a circuit board or flragment of a circuit board? >> evidentiary view is still on jng going. i wouldn't want to speculate or characterize any more than i have. >> at this point, how uncommon is it at this point in the investigation, this type of attack, not to have anybody come forward? >> there are a variety of reasons why. this is a very complicated
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investigation. it is going to be pursued methodically, carefully, diligently, but with a sense of urgency. we are still very -- we are barely 24 hours on into this investigation, so i would say that this is still in its early, early stages. that's the best way i can characterize this right now. >> has the city or state ever issued guidelines to commercial property owners on how to deal with these kinds of attacks or disaster sasasters in the past? are you going to do that going forward if you haven't? as they're rebuilding their properties on boylston street, will you encourage them to do so with reinforced glass windows? >> it's one question per customer. you know that, right? >> got to get them all in at once. >> so i don't frankly know the answer to the first question other than the guidance that folks along the route get in preparation for a specific
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event, in terms of how we go forward, i just like to remind everyone, we've had 116 years of incident-free marathons. and every year we have learned from the last experience. this is a painful and tragic lesson, but we will learn from this as well. and next year's marathon will be even bigger and better. >> how many people went through that area over the course of the day, would you say? a ballpark range of how many people -- >> i don't know the answer to that, do you? >> we do not -- >> you're talking about in the area where the blast occurred? in particular? >> we don't make specific estimates on crowds, but tens of thousands of people are right at the finish line, and this group of people extends off or on for 26.2 miles. >> 24 hours later, how much closer are we to finding out who did this? >> there's been a lot of work done. they are literally going over the crime scene with a
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fine-tooth comb, and there's a lot of information that's coming from the evidence and from our analysis of video. but it's very early in the investigation, as mr. deslauriers said quite clearly, this has to be a methodical investigation that is not a rush to any particular end. we have to be very cautious here. >> special agent deslauriers, knowing what you know about the devices now, are these things that bomb-sniffing dogs could find? >> i couldn't speculate on that right now. again, we're still in the process, as commissioner davis jufd mentioned, we're still in the process of going through the evidentiary review at the crime scene. that process is not completed yet. it is ongoing. i wouldn't want to speculation or characterize that any more until that process is complete. >> mayor menino, do you know anyone who was hurt and have you spoken to the families of anyone who was killed?
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>> yes, i visited several of the families this afternoon at the hospital. they're very strong. the victims, the families needed some help. a young woman i saw there who lost a leg, she had a lot of courage and i think they're hanging in there. we're offering them all the kinds of help we can, both at the medical but also the city help that we'll be there for them. those families, you know, they're going through very difficult times now, and we as a city, as individuals, have to support them as best we can. >> did you know any of the families? >> yes, i did. >> from boston? >> i did. >> is there anything you can -- >> pardon? >> anything you can say about -- >> no. you know, guys, you want all the answers, some of these things are personal things. when we get down to things like that, it's very personal. and you don't get into facts of conversations with victims who you know personally. >> you said earlier that you paid special attention to --
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[ inaudible ] >> well, as governor said, we review each one of these events and at the end of our review last year, we determined that the crowds were larger than usual. and so we put extra officers at the event, especially toward the end of the race, and especially when the runners were first coming in. but as i said, if you review the pictures and the videotape, there was a significant amount of police presence there. the officers are lining the route, looking into the crowd, which is what their job is. [ inaudible question ] >> no, as i said, we talked to our federal and state partners. there was no specific threat about this event. this was a standard threat picture. after 9/11, we're certainly very vigilant, but there was nothing specific about this particular
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event. we had teams -- there was nothing specific at the end of the race. standard procedure, because of pick pockets that occur in that area. those teams were out there, fully deployed as were our eod dogs which were in the area all through the race. >> -- on the effort of boston college, i believe, who organized 8,000 people to walk the last five miles of the marathon route? is that something you're aware of? >> i'm not aware of it all. >> friday? >> no. >> did law enforcement know anything about that? >> no. >> agent deslauriers, if i -- there's a mention of circuitry or a circuit board kind of device that was found. can you say anything about that? [ inaudible ] is that something you want to share with the store owners? >> no, i believe the circuit
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board was brought up by a member of the media right here. not in my remarks. i'm not prepared to speak to that, any aspect pertaining to that right now. certainly going out to the community, conducting a logical investigation, i can assure you the joint terrorism task force is doing that as we speak. >> are there any indications of whether it took a lot of planning to do this? if they may have been planning for many years? >> again, hopefully that will come out in the investigation. i wouldn't, again, that would be speculation on my part right now to speculate how much planning went into this. i do not want to provide you with anything that may be inaccurate information. i don't want to speculate on that. [ inaudible question ] >> the third victim we're having trouble identifying, i don't know where we are with that.
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commissioner davis advises me there is not enough work done right now to make a notification to next of kin for the third victim. >> can you be clear on how many pressure cooker remnants may have found, possible pressure cooker remnants? one at each site? can you be clear on that? two, given your discussion of pressure cookers, what's the sophistication of that? is this something that can be made in a basement? >> i think pressure cookers, we're familiar with those, relatively ordinary cooking t devices. as far as what precisely what evidence was found at what location, i wouldn't want to go into details of that right now. there are multiple pieces of evidence that are at the crime scene as you might well imagine from the serious tragic nature of this event. that analysis is ongoing right now. i wouldn't, again, as i mentioned before, i wouldn't want to provide you with inaccurate information right now as to whether specific pieces of information were found at both crime scenes. information that could possibly
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be a pressure cooker was found at the site and we are putting that out to the public in attempt to generate any lead information. [ inaudible question ] >> bwhen will the national guar be gone? w when they're not needed anymore. the job of the national guard right now is to secure the crime scene. the work of going through the crime scene continues. we're not going to rush that. that will involve some inconvenience to people, but i can't tell you when that work will be finished. the other thing the national guard is doing is helping with the random bag checks in "t." and that will continue for the next day or so anyhow. [ inaudible question ] >> we have had a tremendous outpouring -- >> did you have a question? >> outpours of support from the public in terms of video that has been submitted to us.
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it has been tremendous. and we are analyzing that right now. taking a look at it. we are bringing specialists up from quantico to assist us, digital video analysis experts. we are bringing the best possible resources that the fbi can bring to bear to boston to participate in that very aspect of this investigation. >> can you describe what you're getting from the public? what type of pictures and video? >> i -- it's various video submissions of the area around the crime scene. crime scenes. that were taken around the time of the blast, both before and afterwards. all video like this we encourage the public and particularly businessowners in that area to continue to submit this information. this is very, very important. we thank the city citizens of boston and commonwealth of massachusetts for submitting this information. >> can we hear from the atf, please, an what potential explosive might be that was
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used? many witnesses are saying they smelled something like gun powder. >> yes. that's correct. that has been reported. that type of smell. but we're not prepared yet to go into the specifics as to the blast scene. it's a fairly expansive large scene. that's why we're having to be so methodical in how we're processing it. we do know that there has been some debris recovered from some of the rooftops nearby as well as some of the debris has been embedded in some of the buildings nearby. so that gives you just kind of a scope of the power of the blast. and you can see how it was so devastating. >> white smoke suggests gun powder. >> we're not prepared to really get that specific yet. >> i want to ask a favor on behalf of somebody i met this afternoon. lieutenant governor and i were over at tuft's medical center and we visited a young woman, we
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visited a number of victims, but one young woman named victoria who is a northeastern student who is in the hospital because of a serious shrapnel wound she had in her leg from the site of the first blast. she was scared. she was carried i think by a firefighter. we think by a firefighter to the medical tent. and really as she described it, hysterical. there was a person who helped calm her down who she said was a -- who described himself as an army sergeant, an afghanistan vet. i don't know whether he was assigned to the medical tent or like so many other people there and elsewhere in the commonwealth just jumped in to help. but his name is tyler. that's all we know. tyler. and one of the things he said to her to calm her down was to show her his own shrapnel -- a wound or scar from his own shrapnel
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wound from when he was in afghanistan. victoria very, very much wants to thank tyler personally. so if tyler is out there and listening or reading your reports, we would love to hear from tyler so that we can connect him to victoria. and you can -- tyler can dial 617-725-4000. if you just get that word out there, i'd appreciate the favor and more to the point, victoria would. thank you all for coming. >> ladies and gentlemen. >> we're back with larry johnson to go through that. expert on counterterrorism. what did you make of the request by the governor and the other officials there including a special agent, deslauriers, we begin to look out there and call out the people who heard bombs being tested. is this something a person, amateur or a professional, or a group would test a bomb like this somewhere in the vicinity perhaps before they did it? >> well, an amateur would not have tested the bomb. somebody that knew something about explosives would
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understand that you need to build the device, take it out, test it to see if it works and make sure if you're going to do a prototype or going to set off two simultaneously that you can do that. so they're going to -- that had to be done in some, you know, remote rural area. probably in or near around, you know, boston. maybe it came from outside of there, but somebody tested this somewhere. so that's number one what they're looking for. >> and the second thing, which is so pedestrian, try to remember if you saw somebody carrying dark bags, nylon bags with something that may weigh 40 pounds each in them or 40 pounds all together. a heavyweight. it's one thing to lift up 40 pounds. it's another thing to carry it around for a while. >> the bombs didn't magically appear. somebody had to carry them. >> like cement, cinderblocks. >> my guess on this, based upon looking up pressure cookers, you have a 6-liter model. this is a bigger one. 6 liters will weigh about 13 pounds filled with water. if you packed it with
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explosives, what ammonium nitrate, peroxide, put in nails and other metal, that could way upwards 15 to 20 pounds. if you've got two of those, you're going to be carrying a weight. now, one of the problems they have is you had a lot of athletes carrying gym bags and some things into that area. but this one would have been a little heavier weighted. >> i think it would be something somebody might know, what are you carrying there? >> consider two possibilities. if this was two or more individuals involved, then it's one person carrying 20 pounds to put it. if it's one individual, and i think the fact that there are only two devices, to me, you know, yesterday i thought it could possibly have been a conspiracy with more than just one. now the fact that they were just confined to two devices, i think you've got to look at it may have just been a lone wolf, one be person who was inspired, maybe simple thympathetic to a partic cause but clearly followed a
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playbook. >> the "boston globe" reported it was, in fact, a circuit board. now, a circuit board would tell you what? would it tell you the person was there on the spot, they were able to ignite it or detonate it from afar with perhaps a cell phone or a garage door opener from near at hand? >> the most likely case with the circuit board is that it was a circuit board out of a timer of some sort. so that you could physically set the time -- >> and then leave. >> and then once the timer would hit, it would, you know, it would have some batteries connected to it. most likely. so they'd be looking to see if they recovered batteries. and the electrical charge that would hit the detonator, and, you know, the detonator could consist of something like tatp or a blasting cap. that was would set it off. >> at the airport, a lot of us in our world do, they make sure, you never see a bag sitting somewhere. that could be just like this. >> if you see a bag that hasn't been identified or grabbed by somebody, tell somebody about it. >> larry johnson, stick with us. let's go right to clint van zandt.
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we've been relying upon this gentleman. a former fbi profiler and msnbc contributor. also don clark, a former fbi special agent in charge of the houston office. let's start right now, let's go to clint. clint, you're so good at this kind of thing. what did you make of the new information today since we talked last? the fact that it was bbs, it was nails, it was apparently a pressure cooker. we know it was, perhaps, detonated with a circuit board. tell me what all that tells you in terms of domestic, foreign, individual, or group? >> no. i'm -- the degree of sophistication, number one, yesterday we were talking about small ieds. it sounded like pipe bombs, that, you know, by in large we see people build in the united states all the time. when we start to get into the area of these pressure cooker bombs, well, as you know, chris, for example, back in 1976, there was a hijacking of a plane flying from new york to chicago.
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croatian terrorists were on board. hijacked the plane, got up in the air and they said, by the way, we have a bomb and if you don't believe us, look in a locker in grand central station. the police looked, found the pressure cooker bomb. when they were trying to render it safe, the device went off. two months ago in india, similar type of pressure cooker bombs were used to kill 17 and wound 120. the failed times square bombing, the car bomb in new york city. again, there was a pressure cooker device. what do these have in common? each have a foreign aspect. not domestic, but a foreign type of aspect to it. so when we have to start erring on one side, domestic, or international, i guess the hi hybrid of those, chris, somebody in the states who like major nidal hasan at ft. hood receives their inspiration from the internet, from some, perhaps,
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islamic radicalized individuals. but we haven't seen americans build these type of devices, so we're starting to look internationally. the question is, as my good friend, larry, suggests, could it be just one lone wolf inspired by the internet? finding the formula to build these things on internet? or is it somebody who had some financial, if not some type of guidance from an international counterpart? >> so you're leaning toward the international possibility here. clint? >> yesterday i took it off the board. yesterday i was lone wolf, some timothy mcveigh type who built little pipe bombs. when i see these type of devices, if this is, in fact, the way they're described, to me it opens it up more for a potential either international or internationally inspired type of device. >> let's go to don clark, he's a special agent with the fbi.
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in the 1990s, the world trade center bombing, the first one. thank you for joining us, mr. clark. give us your sense of how you sift through the evidence that has come through with regard to the actual device, the bbs and the nails and the pressure cooker and also the guidance we're getting about what tips to look for. >> well, you know, what we have to is be patient. clearly, chris, we don't live in a world today where people want us to be patient, but you really do have to be patient when you've got this, because the one thing habit it is that number one is we're going to try to find out who put this together and identify those people step by step by step. that's an investigative task that has to be done. and i know that america wants everybody to be taken care of right now, but that can't happen. they've got to get the information there. they've got to determine who these people are and get the
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investigation going so that they can make the case. because keep in front of us is that at some point in time is that the united states is going to have to take somebody to court and they need to have the evidence or it's going to blow out. >> let me go back to larry on that. it seems to me you've got, you know, you're trying to get to the middle of something and you have to go from both ends. because you have to go from evidence gathering to once you get these possibilities figured out, you have to go pursue that person. you can't wait until you get all the evidence. you have to get enough to begin, seems to me, a premise, a notion, who you're working for. >> having watched these investigations over the years. appearing back in 1996 in the olympic park bombing and watching the twa800 investigation. one of the biggest problems c e comes when you get the coordination between the local, state. it's close a food fight, close
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to a fistfight. what i've been impressed with so far watching the interaction is this fbi person up in boston, he's very smart and capable. >> deslauriers. >> he's pushing all the right buttons. if that's translating into the terrorist task force. this is a major case management. the volume of information that's coming in is not just intelligence, it's evidence. it's what don and clint were alluding to, to keep track of all of this -- >> who were the guys in the hazmat universities, the white or yellow uniforms going around picking up pieces? are they first responder police from boston police? or fbi? >> frankly, i don't know. >> it keeps ringing. >> they're trying to figure out which way -- do you know, clint, who's out on the ground doing the evidence collection right on the street corner? this is an interesting coordination question. >> yeah, in a case like this, you normally want the same agency to collect the evidence that processes it. you don't want multiple agencies to do it.
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you want one lab to look at it. now, the fbi has an evidence response team in every field office in the country which would be supported by new york, quantico, places like that. so there's a strong possibility it's fbi evidence response to keep that chain of evidence like don clark is talking about to make sure we have the evidence when we get this guy in handcuffs that we can prosecute him properly. >> wouldn't you be a little scared if you were the person here -- let me bring you in, don. would you be a little scared from the other end of this crime if you're one of people who did this and we already in 24 hours figured out basically the device. we figured out the elements. the bbs, the nails, the pressure cooker. we figured out it was detonated by a circuit board. we're getting pretty close. it seems to me if wei were on t other end of the story, the bad guys, this pursuit is pretty hot right now, pretty effective so far i think as a civilian. >> well, very much so. >> this is one of the things -- >> don, don, please. go ahead.
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>> yeah. i think they're doing a great job by taking their time and not rushing through to this. the only part of this that needs to be a rush is to try to make sure that the citizens are taken care of and get them in a place where they can take care of themselves and be moving on with their families. in terms of the investigation, there is a bit of a parallel there, as you said, chris, but the investigation cannot go too fast because we know what will happen at the other end if it goes too fast in some court or another and that can't happen. we have to take our time, and we have time now to take. yet i don't mean to say at all that this is a slow process and we can take forever. no. we want to get this thing solved, but in the meantime, let's make sure that we've got the evidence so it doesn't kick back with us. >> okay. thank you very much. don clark. thank you, clint van zandt as always. thank you, larry johnson. let me give you an update on the victims of this attack. as we said, three people now
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have been killed and more than 180, more than we thought, were injured yesterday. with me now, dr. william mackey, che chief of surgery at tuft's medical center. thank you for joining us. i was looking yesterday, the first part of the tragedy that struck me was the number of hospitals up in the boston area all with so many patients now in serious problems. serious threat to their lives. what was it like yesterday? what's the situation in your hospital? >> it was extremely hectic right from the get-go. the event occurred about 2:50. by 3:30 or a little bit before, we had victims rolling in. we got about nine people from the scene within about a ten-minute period. eight of them had pretty serious injuries. four of them immediately limb threatening injuries. they were triaged through our system quickly and within about 30 minutes, 4 of them were in the operating room here.
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>> were they amputations, in your case? >> no, we had no fatalities and no amputations, at least so far. we had some very badly damaged limbs, however. all of the injuries were from the knee to the ankle. all of the major injuries, blast injuries. and several people with a lot of bone damage, open fractures, nerve damage, arterial damage. and a lot of muscle damage. so although they most likely won't lose their limbs, there is going to be a lot of rehabilitation, prolonged rehabilitation involved. >> what about infection? i know from my brief covering of the blast from the ieds, this is an ied apparently, over in afghanistan, iraq, the soldiers over there when they get hit with one of these blasts it just throws so much bad stuff, crap, if you will, into their system because it comes from everywhere in the area. is infection a big challenge here for these patients? >> yes, absolutely. that's one of the reasons we wanted to get in of these
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patients up to the operating room as quickly as possible. so under sterile conditions we could wash out these wounds, remove the foreign debris, the dirt, the grime, the street debris in the wounds, as well as the shrapnel. and, you know, i think with washing them out, the dead tissue, removing all the debris, there's a good chance they can avoid serious infection. yes, infection would be a major risk with these patients. >> tell me about the burn victims. was there any burns involved? i'm not that familiar what happens with a blast. were there burns? or is it all immediate wounds? burns tend to get worse. >> yes, we had several burns. none of them were major burns. we had a few people with hand burns. probably put up their hands to protect themselves reflexively and got some flash burns on the hands. we had some people with burns on their backs that weren't that severe. so i don't think the burns that we received are going to be
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really a threat to these patients. >> how about traumatic hearing loss? that kind of thing? blindness? anything like that come of this? >> no blindness. we had four patients that were initially suspected of having ruptured eardrums from the blast. those patients all underwent scans last night and i think two of them ended up not having two ruptured eardrums and the other two did. they will recover their hearing over time. >> how good a shock trauma operation was it yesterday? were you -- just watching it, i'm so impressed by what looks on television to be such a wonderfully humane and professional response from the first responders. how did you -- who figured out which hospitals to send which victims to? it looked to me wonderfully coordinated. >> well, i think you'd have to ask the directors of the boston emergency medical services. i don't know that there was any rhyme or reason to who, which patients were sent to which
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hospitals. i think they tried to distribute the patients relatively evenly among the major trauma centers here in boston. and, you know, we're all fairly close to the scene, so distance was not a major issue. tufts medical center is within a little a little less than a mile within the finish line. boston medical center, mass general, brigham and women's, all are a mile to a mile and a half of the finish line. really not a huge difference in distance. i don't think there was any triage of patients at the scene based on severity of injury or anything else. all of those hospitals are level one trauma centers came of accepting the most seriously injured patients. >> all of your patients just to finish up are not in critical condition, they're in stable or better? >> our patients are stable, thank goodness. they seem to be recovering. we should be able to discharge one or two of the patients tomorrow.
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and a few more will be in the hospital. but, you know, discharged from the hospital at this point is really the start of their recovery. a lot of rehabilitation. maybe some later reconstructive surgery is going to be required. >> dr. mackie, great to have you on in this terrible time. what a professional job you folks are all doing. thank you so much for taking the time to tell the people what's going on. we'll be right back here on msnbc. splashed with sweet honey... and covered in rich double-roasted peanuts. mmm. [ hero ] yummy. [ male announcer ] kellogg's crunchy nut. it's super delicious! prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years. [ thinking ] i wonder what other questionable choices i've made? [ club scene music ] [ sigh of relief ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego.
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we're back now with boston club sports columnist dan
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shaughnessy. he describes yesterday's horror as, quote, "one of our best days is forever tainted." the 117-year-old boston marathon will never be the same. there goes another piece of our freedom and another sacred and oh, so local institution. dan shaughnessy joins me now along with brent o'connor, feet away from yesterday's explosions. dan, your feelings and your thoughts about what this means to boston, the marathon, to this country? >> well, that day, patriots day in boston, it's a very unique thing. we have -- nobody goes to work. nobody goes to school. the red sox play a game at 11:00 in the morning. it's a boston only event. it's always been sacred. and it's always been a very inclusive event. the people finishing that race, that's every man at the finish line there. they're not elite runners. this hit hard and hit home. >> what do you think? i know you put the crepe up there pretty badly. my sense is next year you'll have just as many entries, just as much enthusiasm. there will be some sense as you
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cross the finish line that there was a horror the year before. do you think it's going to have a permanent mar? i know you wrote that on a daily journalism. do you think we're going to have a permanent bad aspect to something as great as the marathon? >> people are going to remember this. it will have an association with the marathon. it will be, i think the mayor said it, bigger and better. people will run it next year. there will be an air of defiance about it. they're not going to take away a great boston institution. >> talk about the rivalry, the curse of the bambino when somebody sold babe ruth to the yankees. i think he had five 20-game years there before they sold him as a pitcher, forced to play outfield every day, the fifth day play pitcher, get out and play the outfield four or five days in a row. you dumped him, you lost him. the sense of the yankee stadium tonight, the yankees, when they play the die moamondbacks. they're going to play "sweet caroline." does that give you a little sentiment for the yankee crowd?
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>> it's a nice thing to do. at times like this you can't get into the boston, new york thing pointing fingers or making insults at one another. this is a time to come together. everybody in boston was way into the yankees in 2001 when the towers fell, and i think that's reciprocated now. >> brent o'connor, you were an eyewitness now. what's been going through your head and heart sense? >> look, it's definitely compelling. i feel really bad. i've never even expeernlsed a boston marathon before. this was actually my first one. i lived in new york for about 12 years. i moved back. and this is my first marathon. and it's really, really sad and really compelling. but what i can say is, you know, bostonians are resilient. we fight. we'll come out of this. you know, it's just -- it's been really tough. it brings me back to the day of september 11th. and when i lived in new york on september 11th, it was really,
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really tough. >> brent, when you woke up in the middle of the night tonight did you remember anything special about the day? was it the explosion itself you remember? >> no. actually, it wasn't. it was actually martin richards from georgia, sir. what really bothered me tremendously about it, that's what really resonated with me. i thought about september 11th and i thought about, oh, my gosh, how many kids have grown up without their parents? this little boy came here to experience 117th boston marathon. and he'll never be able to run in it. i just don't understand how as a country we can let this happen and it's just -- it really -- that's what makes me really, really sad and it brings tears to my eyes. my heart goes out to his family. >> thank you so much for that thought and that feeling, brent. let me go back to dan, the colu columnist. you're so used to cap kmuring your town. what is boston? i went up to the holy cross. you did too, i think. you try to get worcester.
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i think i know worcester. i think i know boston a little bit. what is it? i think i know san francisco. what's the distinctive of that coziness, gray winter, coldness that doesn't go away until may. from christmas until may, there ain't going to be any sun so get together. what are your thoughts? >> we're not about pretension. it's about resiliency. neighborhoods. tribal. old fashioned. the fact we love this event, we've had this event for 117 years. we'll continue to have it. we'll be resilient through this. >> i like the fact you've got the tea. >> tea is good. >> most people get together. you don't have that in every city where everybody gets on that little old fashioned -- what do you call it? it's not actually a subway. >> trolley car. they're trolley cars, chris. you know that. >> i'm letting you do it. i'm giving you the aspect. boston, the sense of coming back over these last 30 or 40 years. i've always told people about that. tip had so much to do with that. teddy kennedy. comeback city from the old days of textiles and shoes and all that.
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you've got a whole new country up there. >> absolutely. they're not going to let this